Mailing list size

Joshua Bekerman bCLO bCRE

When it comes to pulling mailing lists, especially for events, how do you handle the process of finding the right amount of records?  For example, I frequently get requests for lists where they are looking for a specific amount of records to mail to, but most of the time it either comes up short or way over.  Being way over is much easier to handle, we usually wind up going back and forth adjusting the criteria (last gift amount, total giving, city/state/zips, etc), but coming up short usually leads to including constituents that we would never invite in the first place.  Seems like I need to be involved earlier in the process (i.e. how many invites should we order?), but until that happens...


How do you handle situations like this where the request is looking for a certain number of records but they just don't exist in the database?  I'm thinking of creating something of an infographic (or menu?) that shows what we have available in the database.


Thanks!

 

Ryan Hyde

Well typically it's just all about realxing or tightening the criteria. So if my boss wants a list of 5k people to send an event invitation to and she says "grab ayone who's given at least one gift of $200 in the last 18 months," and that list comes back with only 2.5k, I just go ahead and see what stretching the time horizon to 24 months does, or reducing the gift amount to $150 does, and then I show her a menu of options. 


At least where I'm at, writing these kinds of lists is almost always a dialogue, and the first draft of a query rarely ends up being the final version you use in production. 

Joanne Felci 2

At least where I'm at, writing these kinds of lists is almost always a dialogue, and the first draft of a query rarely ends up being the final version you use in production. 

Well said and SO true


It is so rare - if ever - that the first criteria hits the mark, it is usually a back and forth until we get to the correct list. So I never add appeals to records until everything is completely signed off

Joshua Bekerman bCLO bCRE

Sounds like the dialogue needs to take place much earlier in the process here, that I should be involved before they decide how many invitations they will be sending.

Joanne Felci 2

Joshua Bekerman bCRE:

Sounds like the dialogue needs to take place much earlier in the process here, that I should be involved before they decide how many invitations they will be sending.

Oh Josh...dare to dream...

Ryan Hyde

Joshua Bekerman bCRE:

Sounds like the dialogue needs to take place much earlier in the process here, that I should be involved before they decide how many invitations they will be sending.

Oh man, yes, it does! I guess I take my cooperative work environment for granted. I'm definitely in the room pretty early in the process so I can raise red flags and ask the discerning questions needed to get at exactly what they other folks think the criteria should be. Also if something goes wrong, I just pop in to someone's office and we troubleshoot right then and there, easy peasy. 

Jen Claudy

One thing I got in the habit of doing was using temporary Attributes when starting work on a list.  Much easier to deal with than Appeals or Event Records when you might end up scrapping everything and starting over.  I had a couple standing Attributes to use for this, with a Table for the Description (and the Allow Only One option turned on).  When folks were removed from the list, I'd change the Description to "X Remove" which made it easy to not re-add them accidentally.  Once the list was done, and usually when the mailing was dropped or at least printed, I'd convert the Attribute to Appeal/Event (or Import from the final Excel list) and then clear out the Attributes to be ready to use for the next list.


It does sound like you need to push for being involved much earlier in the process, though.  

Matt Page

Joshua Bekerman bCRE:

When it comes to pulling mailing lists, especially for events, how do you handle the process of finding the right amount of records?  For example, I frequently get requests for lists where they are looking for a specific amount of records to mail to, but most of the time it either comes up short or way over.  Being way over is much easier to handle, we usually wind up going back and forth adjusting the criteria (last gift amount, total giving, city/state/zips, etc), but coming up short usually leads to including constituents that we would never invite in the first place.  Seems like I need to be involved earlier in the process (i.e. how many invites should we order?), but until that happens...


How do you handle situations like this where the request is looking for a certain number of records but they just don't exist in the database?  I'm thinking of creating something of an infographic (or menu?) that shows what we have available in the database.


Thanks!

 

I usually get brought in at an early stage, but their responses do tend to vary if the first estimate is under to sometimes going back to include people, but other times, just accepting the smaller mailing size. Often the reason for wanting that many people is linked to the size of the print run, but often that final 100/1000/10,000 copies haven't really cost a great deal to print in the first place and some are persuaded it can be better to save the money on postage than waste more because of sunk costs. Other times there are legitiamte reasons for drawing the circle a bit wider if draft 1 comes up short.


Matt

 

Joy Cox 2

Joshua Bekerman bCRE:

When it comes to pulling mailing lists, especially for events, how do you handle the process of finding the right amount of records?  For example, I frequently get requests for lists where they are looking for a specific amount of records to mail to, but most of the time it either comes up short or way over.  Being way over is much easier to handle, we usually wind up going back and forth adjusting the criteria (last gift amount, total giving, city/state/zips, etc), but coming up short usually leads to including constituents that we would never invite in the first place.  Seems like I need to be involved earlier in the process (i.e. how many invites should we order?), but until that happens...


How do you handle situations like this where the request is looking for a certain number of records but they just don't exist in the database?  I'm thinking of creating something of an infographic (or menu?) that shows what we have available in the database.


Thanks!

 

I've never managed to pull data for a mailing which is exactly the right size!  I would usually add criteria such as largest gift amount over £200 and largest gift date within the last year or filter by constituents who have attended previous events.   Attributes or constitunts codes can be useful here - as you can select previous event attendees or participants.  We use an attribute for events and have a drop down menu to indicate types of participation.

 

Karen Hartt

Joshua Bekerman bCRE:

When it comes to pulling mailing lists, especially for events, how do you handle the process of finding the right amount of records?  For example, I frequently get requests for lists where they are looking for a specific amount of records to mail to, but most of the time it either comes up short or way over.  Being way over is much easier to handle, we usually wind up going back and forth adjusting the criteria (last gift amount, total giving, city/state/zips, etc), but coming up short usually leads to including constituents that we would never invite in the first place.  Seems like I need to be involved earlier in the process (i.e. how many invites should we order?), but until that happens...


How do you handle situations like this where the request is looking for a certain number of records but they just don't exist in the database?  I'm thinking of creating something of an infographic (or menu?) that shows what we have available in the database.


Thanks!

 

I've created a RE Criteria form that the requestor fills out, that being said, most of our lists start out fairly broad and will be narrowed down depending on the number of records in the export and after I've done some preliminary cleanup. Happy to share the form if interested.

robert badley

Karen Hartt:

Joshua Bekerman bCRE:

When it comes to pulling mailing lists, especially for events, how do you handle the process of finding the right amount of records?  For example, I frequently get requests for lists where they are looking for a specific amount of records to mail to, but most of the time it either comes up short or way over.  Being way over is much easier to handle, we usually wind up going back and forth adjusting the criteria (last gift amount, total giving, city/state/zips, etc), but coming up short usually leads to including constituents that we would never invite in the first place.  Seems like I need to be involved earlier in the process (i.e. how many invites should we order?), but until that happens...


How do you handle situations like this where the request is looking for a certain number of records but they just don't exist in the database?  I'm thinking of creating something of an infographic (or menu?) that shows what we have available in the database.


Thanks!

 

I've created a RE Criteria form that the requestor fills out, that being said, most of our lists start out fairly broad and will be narrowed down depending on the number of records in the export and after I've done some preliminary cleanup. Happy to share the form if interested.

 

Karen, I'd be happy to see what you have come up with for a requestor form. In the past I have had no luck making an effective one so am always eager to see other examples.

rbadley@wwfcanada.org

Christine Cooke 2

Joshua Bekerman bCRE:

When it comes to pulling mailing lists, especially for events, how do you handle the process of finding the right amount of records?  For example, I frequently get requests for lists where they are looking for a specific amount of records to mail to, but most of the time it either comes up short or way over.  Being way over is much easier to handle, we usually wind up going back and forth adjusting the criteria (last gift amount, total giving, city/state/zips, etc), but coming up short usually leads to including constituents that we would never invite in the first place.  Seems like I need to be involved earlier in the process (i.e. how many invites should we order?), but until that happens...


How do you handle situations like this where the request is looking for a certain number of records but they just don't exist in the database?  I'm thinking of creating something of an infographic (or menu?) that shows what we have available in the database.


Thanks!

 

I agree, you cannot make the "right" constituents appear in the database and thus your mailing list, just because they did not consult you about the population before ordering the invitations.  They really should be or get in the regular habit of bringing you in, requesting the pull ahead of ordering so they they do not overspend on printing/producing collateral that will end up in recycling when there are way too many.  On the other hand, it always makes me sad in some way when they do not order enough and you have to cut way folks that would otherwise be included.

It is easy enough to have them send a request and/or ask for a number before ordering.  When nonprofits are all about trying to not waste (I think?) why would you not ask for a count?  Then, when they are ready to mail, you pull the list or labels or whatever, whether that is in two days or two weeks or two months.


A work around, to give them an idea of numbers to refer to -- because the don't ask -- I highly suggest pulling the numbers/counts from the same or similar events the year before.  I would also have a worksheet of mailable folks in your database by constituent group or however you mark how your constit are affiliated with your org.

Example:

Gala: mailed 2500

Private Cultivation Dinner:  mailed 67

Golf tournamnete: mailed 435


and Constituencies would be

Alumni:  mailed 3572 fall appeal

Alumni Parents: mailed 6297 spring appeal

and so on.


Maybe that would help until they get to the point where they request numbers before ordering... ;-)

 

Megan Shackle

I've narrowed list size by zip code before, especially for event invitations. This tool can help in eliminating zip codes, although the process is still somewhat manual: https://www.freemaptools.com/find-zip-codes-inside-radius.htm

 

Brenda Anderson

Joshua Bekerman bCRE:

When it comes to pulling mailing lists, especially for events, how do you handle the process of finding the right amount of records?  For example, I frequently get requests for lists where they are looking for a specific amount of records to mail to, but most of the time it either comes up short or way over.  Being way over is much easier to handle, we usually wind up going back and forth adjusting the criteria (last gift amount, total giving, city/state/zips, etc), but coming up short usually leads to including constituents that we would never invite in the first place.  Seems like I need to be involved earlier in the process (i.e. how many invites should we order?), but until that happens...


How do you handle situations like this where the request is looking for a certain number of records but they just don't exist in the database?  I'm thinking of creating something of an infographic (or menu?) that shows what we have available in the database.


Thanks!

 

Use this as an opportunity to save your employer money.  You must be brought into the process early.  The person pulling the data has great insight on how records are coded.  For our complex requests and repeat runs I keep copies of the queries I run to get the constituents they want.  I have some runs that use 30 queries to obtain the closest results required.  I run these 2 times. Once for the count and another closer to the mailing date for the export (obtaining the most up-to-date addresses).  That being said if it is an event say for top donors our relationship managers will always have addon's for those that don't quite make the criteria.

Joan Perry

Josh,

Best of luck getting included in the process earlier. Sometimes an expensive lesson is unfortunately the best way to bring about that change (not what I am advocating...just what I've experienced).

Like others, I to have kept overviews of past mailings that help us with quick forecasting of the next mailing. I walk the line between keeping clean notes and hoarding all my notes, output pages, etc...but have them filed by task/event/mailing - so that too helps with the past history.

Other times, we have templates for the queries/reports/exports that we can run to get an estimate -- depending on how much time you want spent on it ahead of time. Reports/queries and mailing labels have been helpful for a pretty decent "down and dirty" rough count.

And no appeals, actions, event participant adds, etc get done until the final mailing list goes to the mail house (or is printed in house).

Joan